Hi all
Juicy one this week, so will get right too it! But don’t forget to support In the Read if you can!
interview
How long have you worked in publishing and how much do you get paid?
I have worked in publishing for ten years and started on £19,000 as an editorial assistant, which I think was actually £1k more than the standard at the time. My flatmate back then worked in a different but still creative industry as an assistant and she was on £17,000 so I felt that I was doing well! I am now on £50k.
Tell us a bit about what your job entails.
I oversee an imprint, managing a list of authors and a number of direct reports. Day to day is everything from editing (though usually this is still in the evenings and weekends) and dealing with author requests and emails, to the more project management side of the job – ensuring all departments know what the strategy for publication is and executing that strategy. I have a budget and targets the list needs to hit and I come up with the publishing strategy to ensure those targets are met.
How do you feel about the amount of money you earn?
I have a good salary that means I’m comfortable so I have no complaints. Looking back, I can see my pay rises have come from moving around publishers and I’ve only reached a salary that I can comfortably live on in London in the last couple of years – it was quite a steep rise when it happened and I’ve heard that that’s the usual case. You spend so long on a low rage and then suddenly, the money goes up. I will say I have no idea how this compares to others at my level. I did look at the spreadsheet that went round and don’t remember there being anyone on there that was particularly senior and I’ve since lost the link!
Do you own property?
Yes
Do you have a pension?
Yes
Have you made financial sacrifices for working in books? Do you think it’s been worth it?
I didn’t have parents who lived in London or near London but I was lucky that they were able to support me if I ever ran out of money for the first few years I was living here. It’s only recently that I’ve managed to start saving but again I was lucky that my parents were able to give me a deposit for my flat.
When I was on a much lower salary it was very evident how little I got paid compared to my friends who were in industries like law, finance or teaching. When my friends heard how much I was paid – £25k at the time I think and I was in my late twenties, they were shocked and embarrassingly always started trying to pay for me if we met up for dinners etc. I did see less of them too because I could only afford to go out about once a month.
I didn’t go on holidays for about five years as I couldn’t afford to and even then my first proper holiday I paid for on a credit card. I’m aware though that not being able to go on holiday is quite a first world problem and don’t get me wrong, I know I’m very fortunate and privileged compared to so many struggling in or struggling to get into the industry.
A friend who worked in accounting once asked how much I made for the company from the books I published and I told them. They pointed out I didn’t even make 10% of what my contribution to the company was and directors at their company were on 100k+ salaries for a lower contribution.
I love the creative side of my job so yes I feel now, it is worth it, and I would struggle to do something I didn’t enjoy. However, I do look back and sometimes think where did my life go? I spent my twenties in an office in London and not even really enjoying London because it was too expensive. I was single, it was hard to go out and meet anyone because I didn’t really go out, and didn’t see my friends that much and I did feel very lonely. There were days when it was so stressful and there was so much pressure and work and you think, what was it all for? But I’m also sure everyone in every industry has felt what if?
What would you change about the industry, to make it fairer, if you had the power to do so?
I would definitely encourage pay transparency and have a higher starting salary. You have to work so hard at the lower levels, the workload is huge, and you deserve to have some money to spend on enjoying yourself too – and it’s healthier! Also to not be so London-centric – I’ve seen others in these interviews comment the same, but it is mad that you’re made to live in the most expensive city in the UK but the pay in no way reflects that. It is a huge barrier to entry and is exactly the reason why publishing is predominantly made up of white, middle-class people who all think and feel the same and publish the same books.
I would also like people in the industry to stop hiding behind a very, what I would call, middle-class veil of passive aggression. Everyone should still be polite and respectful, but so many people in publishing don’t say what they really mean or, perhaps because of it being so hierarchical, aren’t confident enough to speak up and offer new ideas, and it’s just inefficient. You can go round and round in circles about covers or strategies etc. and the delays have a huge impact on how the book does when it is published.
Do you think money is wisely spent and invested in the business?
Yes and no – I have seen evidence of good spending and decision-making. If a book isn’t performing despite all the work and money gone into it, then I believe you should take the spend away and then reassess why the book hasn’t worked. But there are also numerous examples of where money isn’t spent wisely. Hugely expensive parties or launches/publication dinners for authors – I think a hangover from the good old days in the 80s and 90s when there was far more money in publishing. Author care is such a huge thing but for some reason it means throwing all your money at a few successful authors to keep them happy. There are stories of crazy publication gifts that I’m sure everyone has heard.
Most publishers have a priority list of authors. Books/authors are chosen to be a focus and then all the money and resource is focused on those in the hope they will be huge bestsellers and make a lot of profit. This is a very successful strategy and it works which is why publishers keep doing it. But in my experience, interestingly this strategy is also dependent on the books that do well with nothing – low advances, 0 marketing budget, typically genre and with a very clear readership and they make a lot of profit because nothing has been spent on them.
My question – or interest I guess – is on the people who make the decisions on where the money is spent. Those at the very top in marketing, publishers, MDs etc. You bring books to acquisitions but the decision about where money and focus goes tends to be made behind closed doors. You can buy a book which has so much excitement in acquisitions and then months down the line you find out it’s not a priority for sales/marketing or publicity and has 0 budget.
Are those people making these decisions making the right decisions? And what are those decisions based on – if they’re good at their jobs then it’s based on their experience and knowledge of the market and its readers but there are cases where it comes down to personal taste and preference. Also increasingly, I’ve found, who the agent is. Agents of the moment get huge advances – even if the book is actually very average. It’s a shame to see amazing books get nothing and no visibility because they haven’t come from a certain agency.
Publishing salaries at the bottom have not budged much in ten years, despite industry growth. Why do you think that is?
As an industry, I feel publishing is very slow to change – partly because it’s made up of the same people who have always been in publishing who then expect their juniors to be exactly like them too and have the same experiences they had working their way up. As I mentioned above in some ways it feels like publishing hasn’t adapted to the fact there isn’t the money in publishing as there was in the 80s/90s – saying that though there are definitely cases where publishers have dealt with very tricky negotiations because they have to reduce the advances of authors from those days who expected to still be paid the same – even if they weren’t selling as many books.
Demand too is a factor – so many people want to work in publishing and if one person wants more money there will be ten more who will accept any wage you give them because they so desperately want to be in the industry.
No union too and the fact that until recently no one talked about pay.
Why does the average author make so little money?
There are a number of factors I think – consumers are demanding more for less. It’s very rare these days to sell a book at full price. Lots of high discounts, Amazon, for instance, pushing prices lower, and whoever priced the first ebook at 99p has a lot to answer for! Think of the work and effort that has gone into that ebook and there are now so many readers who will only buy books at 99p.
Also there are now so many ways to become an author and so many more books in the market. In fact the industry is buying and publishing more books than ever before – the consumer has more choice than ever before, and they aren’t going to buy all the books that are published. The current teams aren’t equipped to handle the number of titles and so the majority of books will publish and just vanish, without being able to rise above the competition because of lack of marketing or spend, or – more often too – a bad package. If the package, by which I mean the cover, title, proposition, doesn’t appeal to the reader then no amount of spend will help that book.
Do you think there is problem with salary transparency in publishing? Is it something that others at high levels take seriously?
Yes, definitely. It used to be that not talking about your salary was even written into your contract. I definitely feel more people are taking it seriously but there is a still an attitude at the top of ‘this is how it was in my day and I managed’ not to mention the pressures of hitting targets and reducing costs and I think pay has always been an easy thing to ignore/target for cost-cutting – because it is so hard to argue with on a one to one basis.
What would it take for things to change? By that I mean (for example): a starting salary of £30,000 rising to £40-£50K over five-ten years based on meeting clearly established targets?
This is hard to answer. In my opinion, for people to know their worth and demand more/keep pushing for change – and to know they are not alone, and this is why what you’re doing Niamh is so important. But also for managers to keep pushing for change too and demand more for their teams. It’s very rare managers have any power over salary by the way, it will always be a decision made by those leading the division/publisher and what the targets and budget are like.
Also for there to be a serious look at how much is spent on events/parties/launches and whether it’s worth it. And, if I’m honest, lower salaries at the top – but I have no idea how that could happen because I can’t imagine anyone at the top tier of pay would ever voluntarily take a pay cut – then again I think a lot of us who are being promoted to more senior positions now aren’t getting anywhere near the salary of those who were above us got so maybe it will be that we have to wait for the current leaders or big salaries to leave or retire . . . which is a depressing thought.
Do you think more competitive remuneration and salary transparency would have a positive impact on diversity in the business?
100%
thank you!
This week’s interviewee has addressed a lot of issues mentioned in response to the survey – huge thanks. Loads to think about . . .
Links
. . . one thing is the comment about focussing all of the attention and spend on the titles expected to make it “big” and then the comparative lack of attention for anything else. I was already thinking about this because I stumbled across the story about Bruce Wagner publishing his latest novel, The Marvel Universe, for free, on his website.
First thing – I’ve downloaded the novel, read half of it in an evening, and it is wonderful (the typesetting is exquisite by the way, in case you were worried, publishing people). It’s both filthy and sublime, I haven’t enjoyed brand new fiction so much in ages. (Wagner has been writing novels about Hollywood since the nineties, and he also wrote the screenplay for the film Maps to the Stars, one of my very faves).
The story around why he chose to “publish” his new book in this way is fascinating. The Daily Mail presented it as a simple story of cancel culture (as is their wont), but Wagner’s own take on it is so much richer, interesting and – to me – deeply inspiring. In this interview, he talks about how his books, as mid-list literary fiction, don’t make a dime anyway, so why not share for free? This is clearly not going to work for everyone but I like this punk attitude and his willingness to call BS on publishing ( in the novel, a big corporate is referred to as Random Louse).
Finally, if anyone wants to share any links with me, especially ones that say it’s totally fine if your four-year-old has no interest in sitting still and learning about split digraphs (i dunno either), and that actually, it means he’s gonna be prime minister of Scandinavia one day, I would be very open to and grateful for that.
And again, if you can, your support for all of this is very much appreciated.
Til next time
Niamh xo